Great question KB. Predestination is referenced over a dozen times in Scripture. One is the leaven of the Pharisees, one is the leaven of the Herodians, both are an affront to the gospel. Jesus said he didnt condemn Mary the prostitute, but she was to go & sin no more . We cant offer the grace of Christ with a lie attached. NO sin is okay with God, from the way you lust in your mind about someone walking by you down the street or when you utter even the smallest curse against someone in your mind (Jesus said those crimes are adultery and murder, respectively). How would you justify this to a Seventh Day Adventist person? And then there are the oft-cited examples of Pauls implicit endorsement of slavery and the reduced role/view of women. Where did Jesus say anything about polluting the environment, or armed robbery? If you want to stay in the fold, youd best be subordinately silent. People arent aware. (Take a gander at the Sermon on the Mount if youre puzzled.) By saying homosexual practice is not sin, it is a form of self-justification rather than Jesus-justification. Accept them or move toward something else, but do not post an article in which you compare nasty articles and comments written about you online to Good Friday. 1:1-2. Please read Chapter 33 of the esteemed Hebraist Joel Hoffmans The Bible Doesnt Say That, on Homosexuality. A public figure often needs to be called publicly. Does the pushing some people out of Gods Grace, shaming especially the most historically vulnerable, BRING people to faith, into a relationship with the Loving God? Truth is truth, however, and it is offensive. You may think Im saying all this to be divisive or undermine Scripture. Call off the attack dogs. MaintainingContaining To say other wise could cause them not to have Jesus as Lord. There are many of us in the Body that once were insiders that are no longer. This is the bottom line: Jen Hatmaker and her husband said that they had a revelation from God after much prayer that basically the story of Adam and Eve and the pattern of marriage also pertains to homosexual marriage! Jesus experienced that. Im not trying to bait you or flame you or troll you or whatever. p.s. Science maybe? When do people get to day sin is okay and not get reprimanded. ANC: Austin New Church, Hatmakers' church in Austin FMCUSA: the Free Methodist Church- USA, which ANC was affiliated with and financially sustained by since its inception JH: Jen Hatmaker, member of Austin New Church (ANC), occasional preacher, no official leadership position stated BH: Brandon Hatmaker, founding pastor and elder at ANC 'Art forms such as spoken word, poetry, drama, dance or even instrumental music have large been relegated to a rare holiday service if at all . I have been in the conservative church for over half a century, and Im getting to the point where I feel that if the conservative church wants to exclude me, then so be it. And theyre not always wrong. . But those who are outside God judges. My mind was changed BECAUSE of my seriousness of the Word, not in spite of it. He was in the middle of right-wing evangelical churchianity and he skewers it as it justly deserves to be skewered. Man, the irony. Good question. BURN. Look at this in context: Have you not read that He Who made them in the first place made them man and woman? What good is it?! Maybe he chased them with a whip in love, perhaps? In January of 2018, after coming under the umbrella of the United Methodist Church, we were gifted our beautiful new campus in the heart of the 04. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner not even to eat with such a person. Do you believe in predestination? One more question to you all who point fingers to those whose sin ( your word) is public, I want to ask- where is your contrition for shaming others? It doesnt mean that homosexuals shouldnt be allowed in the church however. You sound like someone born of self intellect masked in biblical references.you dont sound like Jesus, you sound like a Pharisee, overeducated and pious. Romans 1 is very very clear. Stop posting if you wish to avoid correction or unfounded hatred. All your big words back there managed to give the vague impression that it was an actual denial of the Gospel. In the end, people are going to follow their hearts/instincts. In the Dallas, TX area 7 Months ago, the church I founded as a church planter was destroyed from this kind of mentality (I graduated from Fuller Theological Seminary and have pastored for over 20+ years). In the Nicene Creed, Christians declare our belief in the four key attributes of the church when we say, [We believe] in one, holy, catholic. To them, the Scriptures are clear on this issue, and they think the rest of us are in error by treating Sunday like a Sabbath. She also said she attempted suicide. We ought to love in truth and tell the truth in love. Jesus wanted to create a stampede of animals out of the temple, and theres no reason to conclude he used the whip for any other purpose than this. Im convinced that Paul was the first hippie and Jesus was a hardliner who called people to even higher standards than the Law of Moses. But why does the pendulum have to swing to the other side on this, blatantly disregarding some of the approaches Jesus took and instead taking a hippie approach? Ahh yes. Do you not judge those who are inside? Such a natural fit. I hope Ive brought some clarity. The Justice Primer: An 8-Week Guide to Social Impact. What a terrible way to talk about Good Friday., http://www.holmeslybrand.com/culture/2017/4/21/jen-hatmaker-please-stop. you are not God. I dont think so. Be and example yourself, I think you should read the Bible: Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. . Yours is the only comment on this blog that makes any sense to me. The old you have to be tolerant of my intolerance argument. Questions: I dont think there is a hard and fast rule on this. Because they are against what God says is wrong. I cant speak for all of Jens critics, but yes, a person with a platform that reaches millions of souls is important and it matters that they are presenting the right Gospel without wavering, and naturally people, myself, included, believe and want this Gospel to be clearly proclaimed no matter the cost. These reflect ACTIONS of FAITH. I do agree with Mike, Surely, if you think a person is guilty of teaching or promoting heresy your primary motivation would be to want to correct that person and restore them to orthodox faith. Of course not! For the gossip its the same. Either you believe it is sin, and you teach people that Gods grace can cover this and help people take it to the cross. Hollywood Life. We have to die to our sin, our own desires and live for Christ. So many people do want to be christians because so ofter christians are brutal to one another. Timeline: But often we fail to see it when its practiced within our own communities. About how a man and his wife, who is a man and woman, join together and become one flesh in a marriage covenant. Look, its not easy Im sure for those trying to deal with this. I find many here lining up in a militaristic way about their faith. Reasoning is a heretical concept to them. 1:44. Perhaps it is partly because you spend your Christian celebrity capital to gripe about online comments. Online. Pretty much the same thing in Matthew. I wonder if anyone on here is going to change anyones mind. These guys are preaching or teaching heresy under the guise of being loving. (Matt. Thanks, man. My PCA friends love John Calvin, Martin Luther, et al. Austin New Church. November 1: BH affirms his JHs position on FB. Do you believe this, and if not how do you justify that? There is a time and place for calling people out, but we have lost our heart when it comes to being good examples of how to resolve conflict. Come be part of what God is doing." RELIGION ACTIONS of the individual, Instead of: We cant receive grace from something we dont actually believe is a sin. Would you kick him out of your church because he doesnt believe that part of the Bible? This timeline is compelling and will sadly, i fear, be ignored. Does this however mean that people who are homosexual are not welcome to attend church? Lots of folks. We see it most clearly in closed communities like Scientology, or in cults like Jonestown or the Branch Davidians, or among fundamentalist churches like Westboro Baptist. For I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a mans enemies will be those of his own household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. $99.99 + $18.10 shipping. The result is seldom effective, convincing, or pleasant and generally elicits a predictable backlash from the online masses. I do agree with your comment to Link above, and I most certainly believe that the place for confrontation is not social media or blog posts. The commandments are these: love God and love people. LehrenDotCom. In-person. When Jen Hatmaker wrote a raw and heartfelt blog about the pain shes been through over recent attacks and posted it on Good Friday, she was taken to task for daring to identify her pain with that of Christs. At some point the quantity and quality of ex-evangelicals will outweigh the insiders, and evangelicalism will struggle surely supporting Trump is against its original principles and a sign of its death. But we should not bend Gods word with our own to meet the secular world. Im simply asking you to justify the parts of the Bible you either reinterpret or ignore altogether. Jesus seems unwavering on what marriage is for life, one man, one woman, one flesh. Updated August 18, 2020 Lots of talk of RELIGION-not FAITH High profile people in high profile ministries invite both high profile praise and high profile criticism, with no accountability on the part of those meting out the criticism. Jesus calls us to speak the Truth in LOVE (not in bloodthirsty fury). Huge fan of the underdog. Is BH on staff at ANC in any paid or unpaid position? My plea to people is, just remember youre talking about a human being. So, its now my responsibility as an outsider to these famous Christians to find a way to contact them to tell them that I dont see Biblically where they have made their stand. I know a guy with a Phd from a very conservative seminary who loves Jesus with all his heart, but he doesnt believe the earth was created in six days. Now we all sin, its truee, and we should be inclusive. They need to ask forgiveness and repent like all sinners need too do. JM reports that membership at ANC has decreased by approximately 40% in four months. Not someones opinion who, based on the limited comments on this post, appear to be more than a little arrogant. I think most Christians would agree with that. And you know I respect you, right? There is nothing more frightening to a human being (and this time I say this from personal offline experience) than the sense that the community is turning on them. But if a person is claiming to be a Christian but keeps insisting that any sins pointed out in the Bible are not sin, and after being shown time and again that theyre wrong, then there does come a time when it says in the Bible Do not even eat with such a person. Who are you to decide that gay people need to live lonely lives.who cant even have a friend of the same sex because, heaven forbid, they might fall in love with them? Holly, let me guess: Youre heterosexual and married or in a relationship with a manmaybe you have kids. It seems to me there is room to fairly critique both speaker and listener here. It does seem there is a growing, insatiable desire in Christian circles to hurriedly name the next heretic, rather than lovingly correct or engage in healthy dialogue. What has happened to jen is not great! I recommend Frank Schaffers books to everyone. Brian Austin Green Praises Megan Fox As He Claps Back At Ex Vanessa Marcil's Coparenting Dig. He chased people out with a whip and turned over the tables of the money changers. Once the congregation saw what happened, the church shut down three weeks after my resignation. It uses the term error for all other deviations. Did Jesus condemn homosexualituy? And just for reference, you cited Matthew 21:12 which you claimed to read again. But often we fail to see it when its practiced within our own desires and live for Christ shut three! Wonder if anyone on here is going to follow their hearts/instincts pleasant and generally elicits a predictable backlash from online... 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